"Barbara, even your supporters and fans have written to ask what has happened to you? They no longer read you. They feel sorry for you."
--Rayelan Allan, Editor of Rumor Mill News
"Great work, Barbara, in reference to the above false statement by Rayelan. They lose in this absurd shift in "rules"; also, the absence of your material from RMN diminishes the overall value of the network and at the same time given your public remarks about their silly and unfounded criticisms renders your particular voice of reason, sound judgement and excellent analysis in even greater demand than ever."
"Great work, Barbara, in reference to the above false statement by Rayelan. They lose in this absurd shift in "rules"; also, the absence of your material from RMN diminishes the overall value of the network and at the same time given your public remarks about their silly and unfounded criticisms renders your particular voice of reason, sound judgement and excellent analysis in even greater demand than ever."
--Former FBI Agent Geral Sosbee
Ken Adachi, editor of a website called Educate-Yourself, began a vicious libel campaign against Barbara Hartwell in 2001, shortly after I went public about breaking off my professional association and friendship with Ex-FBI Senior SAC and Bureau Chief Ted L. Gunderson.
Adachi's smear campaign against Barbara Hartwell has continued unabated, with one overarching agenda: To discredit the truth being exposed about ex-officio and defacto COINTELPRO agent Ted Gunderson.
Adachi's modus operandi is deceitful and crude: a no-holds-barred offensive attacking the character of Barbara Hartwell, using the testimony of criminals, liars and his fellow government stooges and shills.
In this report, I will focus on Ken Adachi's promotion of another government disinfo/New Age website, Rumor Mill News.
In November, 2003, I resigned from Rumor Mill News, when I'd had my fill of censorship, micro-management by busybodies and idiotic New Agers who attempted to force their collectivist (and even communist) ideologies on me.
As a result of my resignation (as always, I was very blunt and straightforward in explaining WHY) I was immediately attacked from all sides by silly New Agers and by Rayelan's lackeys --and then by Rayelan herself, who finally (along with a number of others, including Fintan Dunne, who was later "banned" from RMN) accused me of being CIA.
Liar and stooge Ken Adachi took this window of opportunity and exploited it to once again accuse Barbara Hartwell of "betraying" and "attacking" Rayelan --and to reiterate his outrageous lie that Barbara Hartwell is a "CIA mind-controlled robot".
For the record, I RESIGNED from Rumor Mill News in November, 2003. Rayelan only "banned" me after the fact and selectively removed my posts to cover up the truth.
Also, for the record, Rayelan showed her true colors by caving in to the harassment, intimidation and threats of Ted Gunderson and his minions, including career criminal, predicate felon and stalker, Tim White.
She made a scapegoat of Barbara Hartwell, out of cowardice. And she allowed herself to become just another supplicant in Ted Gunderson's protection racket.
As was made abundantly clear, IN HER OWN WORDS, in my recent report [ASSESSING BARBARA HARTWELL & TED GUNDERSON (?)] Rayelan KNOWS THE TRUTH about Ted Gunderson.
She admitted to having been harassed by Gunderson (and his lackey Tim White.) She admitted to being threatened by Gunderson with a lawsuit; and she even made the claim (true or false) that Ted Gunderson (in 1990) was given a contract on her life! A contract she claimed was put out by "the President" and "the Director of the CIA", no less....
Why publish all this? Why now? Because I am sick and tired of all the lies. In particular, I am sick and tired of this liar, this evildoer, this aggressive and belligerent ignoramus and government stooge, Ken Adachi, and his vociferous, filthy libel campaign!
I am sick and tired of having my good name destroyed by government stooges and shills who accuse me of being CIA.
I am sick and tired of being threatened with bogus lawsuits, which Ken Adachi and his cohorts have been gleefully promoting all over the World Wide Web.
I am sick and tired of having my PRIVATE, UNLISTED street address published on Adachi's website, in libelous reports by Adachi's cohorts, criminal stalkers, liars and porno-mongers, including Tim White and Todd Brendan Fahey, for the purpose of SOLICITING FURTHER CRIMINAL HARASSMENT, A CRIME IN AND OF ITSELF.
Ken Adachi is not just a government stooge, doing the bidding of government-sponsored criminals and their cronies. No, Adachi is also a longstanding co-conspirator in a criminal network, which includes racketeering. And I'm sick and tired of the whole damned thing!
Ken Adachi has posted this section (below) on his website, promoting Rumor Mill News.
Gunther Russbacher & Rumor Mill News
Ken Adachi, editor of a website called Educate-Yourself, began a vicious libel campaign against Barbara Hartwell in 2001, shortly after I went public about breaking off my professional association and friendship with Ex-FBI Senior SAC and Bureau Chief Ted L. Gunderson.
Adachi's smear campaign against Barbara Hartwell has continued unabated, with one overarching agenda: To discredit the truth being exposed about ex-officio and defacto COINTELPRO agent Ted Gunderson.
Adachi's modus operandi is deceitful and crude: a no-holds-barred offensive attacking the character of Barbara Hartwell, using the testimony of criminals, liars and his fellow government stooges and shills.
In this report, I will focus on Ken Adachi's promotion of another government disinfo/New Age website, Rumor Mill News.
In November, 2003, I resigned from Rumor Mill News, when I'd had my fill of censorship, micro-management by busybodies and idiotic New Agers who attempted to force their collectivist (and even communist) ideologies on me.
As a result of my resignation (as always, I was very blunt and straightforward in explaining WHY) I was immediately attacked from all sides by silly New Agers and by Rayelan's lackeys --and then by Rayelan herself, who finally (along with a number of others, including Fintan Dunne, who was later "banned" from RMN) accused me of being CIA.
Liar and stooge Ken Adachi took this window of opportunity and exploited it to once again accuse Barbara Hartwell of "betraying" and "attacking" Rayelan --and to reiterate his outrageous lie that Barbara Hartwell is a "CIA mind-controlled robot".
For the record, I RESIGNED from Rumor Mill News in November, 2003. Rayelan only "banned" me after the fact and selectively removed my posts to cover up the truth.
Also, for the record, Rayelan showed her true colors by caving in to the harassment, intimidation and threats of Ted Gunderson and his minions, including career criminal, predicate felon and stalker, Tim White.
She made a scapegoat of Barbara Hartwell, out of cowardice. And she allowed herself to become just another supplicant in Ted Gunderson's protection racket.
As was made abundantly clear, IN HER OWN WORDS, in my recent report [ASSESSING BARBARA HARTWELL & TED GUNDERSON (?)] Rayelan KNOWS THE TRUTH about Ted Gunderson.
She admitted to having been harassed by Gunderson (and his lackey Tim White.) She admitted to being threatened by Gunderson with a lawsuit; and she even made the claim (true or false) that Ted Gunderson (in 1990) was given a contract on her life! A contract she claimed was put out by "the President" and "the Director of the CIA", no less....
Why publish all this? Why now? Because I am sick and tired of all the lies. In particular, I am sick and tired of this liar, this evildoer, this aggressive and belligerent ignoramus and government stooge, Ken Adachi, and his vociferous, filthy libel campaign!
I am sick and tired of having my good name destroyed by government stooges and shills who accuse me of being CIA.
I am sick and tired of being threatened with bogus lawsuits, which Ken Adachi and his cohorts have been gleefully promoting all over the World Wide Web.
I am sick and tired of having my PRIVATE, UNLISTED street address published on Adachi's website, in libelous reports by Adachi's cohorts, criminal stalkers, liars and porno-mongers, including Tim White and Todd Brendan Fahey, for the purpose of SOLICITING FURTHER CRIMINAL HARASSMENT, A CRIME IN AND OF ITSELF.
Ken Adachi is not just a government stooge, doing the bidding of government-sponsored criminals and their cronies. No, Adachi is also a longstanding co-conspirator in a criminal network, which includes racketeering. And I'm sick and tired of the whole damned thing!
Ken Adachi has posted this section (below) on his website, promoting Rumor Mill News.
Gunther Russbacher & Rumor Mill News
[Editor's Note: This article was dictated by Gunther Russbacher, who co-founded Rumor Mill News along his his wife, Rayellan. Gunther died about a year ago I believe. I'm not sure of the circumstances of his death, but I have the vague notion that it was a natural death, perhaps cancer, but I can't say for certain. Gunther worked for the CIA and discovered what all people eventually discover when they work for an organization that is evil to the core: first they use you, and then they betray you.
The Russbachers, in founding Rumor Mill News, have played an important role in informing the public about issues that otherwise would never appear in mainstream print. I've also noticed that Rumor Mill News (RMN) has also been used to promote disinformation, but it's not necessarily by intention or design of the Russbachers. The intelligence (?) agencies USE people and their assets to promote the Dark Agenda and they don't necessarily seek your permission or agreement.
I was annoyed for a time with Rayellan for publishing whatever lies and crap that issued from the poison pen of CIA mind-controlled robot Barbara Hartwell in her unending attempts to smear and discredit the reputation of Ted Gunderson. Eventually, Rayellan finally caught on to the fact that Hartwell is a mind controlled robot who does nothing BUT lie and distort the truth about whomever she has targeted. Naturally, as soon as Rayellan stopped publishing Hartwell's articles, Hartwell instantly turned on her and began attacking Rayellan with the vitriol that she normally reserved for her 'regular' roster of victims. I believe that Kenn Thomas of Steam Shovel Press and Uri Dowbenko of Conspiracy Planet have also suffered similar 'fates' from the poisoned mind of Barbara Hartwell. In fact, Hartwell is so desperate to have anybody publish her tirades, that she now even sends her stuff to me, despite the fact that she has attacked me visciously and continuously ever sice I began to defend Ted Gunderson against her outrageous rants.
Mirroring her mentor and controller, the CIA, Hartwell first USES those who publish her drivel and will immediately BETRAY them whenever they no longer serve her purpose. Hartwell has even turned on people who have sent her substantial sums of money. I know of one woman in Los Angeles who sent Hartwell over a thousand dollars a few years ago to buy a new computer. A few months later, Hartwell was pillorying the same woman over the Internet (because she supported Ted Gunderson), undoubtedly using the very computer that the lady in Los Angeles had paid for. Another lady who had given Hartwell a thousand dollars was equally fanged by the Crimson Viper when she ever so politely defended the honor of Don Stacey, another victim of Hartwell's attack programming. ..Ken]
HARTWELL REFUTES ADACHI'S LIBELOUS FALSEHOODS
Adachi: "I believe that Kenn Thomas of Steam Shovel Press and Uri Dowbenko of Conspiracy Planet have also suffered similar 'fates' from the poisoned mind of Barbara Hartwell."
Hartwell: Uri Dowenko stopped publishing my articles on Conspiracy Planet in 2003. He removed my column in the Whistleblower section, without informing me or giving an explanation. I never contacted him after that, as it did not concern me. That was his choice and his right.
And the ONLY public comment I have ever made about Uri Dowbenko was in my open letter to Noreen Gosch, stating the same, and that Uri Dowbenko expressed to me that his primary interest was to make money. Period. No poison here. Only the truth.
As for Kenn Thomas, I have NEVER said one word about him which could possibly be interpreted by anyone as "poison". He had posted a few of my articles, the same ones which appeared on Conspiracy Planet. He later removed them. I never commented on it. So much for Adachi's claims about the "poisoned mind" of Barbara Hartwell.
Adachi: "In fact, Hartwell is so desperate to have anybody publish her tirades, that she now even sends her stuff to me, despite the fact that she has attacked me visciously and continuously ever sice I began to defend Ted Gunderson against her outrageous rants."
Hartwell: I have NEVER, at any time, sent ANYTHING to Ken Adachi. This is another bald-faced LIE. Perhaps one of the identity thieves who Adachi trafficks with sent these putative missives from me.Or more likely, Adachi is lying, as usual. Ken Adachi is a liar and I also consider him a low-grade moron. I don't engage in communications with such people, by e-mail or otherwise. I simply EXPOSE them in my own defense. Case closed.
As for Adachi's claims about "pillorying" a woman because she "supported Ted Gunderson", it might behoove Adachi to learn that this same woman was someone who approached me with a copy of The Last Circle, which EXPOSED Ted Gunderson. She told me she was worried by this, but later caved under pressure from Ted's cohort, Susan Ford aka Brice Taylor, who denied that anything in the book was true.
Just because a person gives me money (no matter how large a donation) that does NOT "buy" my loyalty, my friendship or my allegiance. And contrary to Adachi's claim that the woman was somehow subjected to "pillorying" by Barbara Hartwell, there was absolutely NOTHING published by me on the Internet about this woman.
As for Marilyn Guinnane, who "defended the honor of Don Stacey.": What honor? As I have exposed in my reports, Stacey is CIA, running a containment operation, in cahoots with Ted Gunderson and others.
And this woman did NOT donate $1,000 to me. I never even heard of her until she came out of the woodwork to "defend" CIA operative Don Stacey. Her idea of "defense" was an ill-informed and misguided attack on the character of Barbara Hartwell.
As with all such stooges, I exposed her, which is exactly what she deserved and brought on herself.
The truth is, Ken Adachi will tell ANY lie that suits his purposes. He will also recruit liars and promote liars, as long as their lies are all about Barbara Hartwell.
So it comes as no surprise that Adachi is promoting Rumor Mill News.
And now, here are some excerpts from the Rumor Mill News Forum and agents' lounge, which give a very clear indication of what was REALLY going on back in 2003.
So much for Ken Adachi and his flagrant lies about Barbara Hartwell. So much for Rayelan Allan and her coverups of the truth at the expense of Barbara Hartwell.
I sure hope the "defense" of Ted Gunderson & Co. and the protection they seem to think it will buy them was worth it.
Barbara Hartwell
October 3, 2007
RAYELAN SOLICITS "CURSES" FROM WITCHES AGAINST "ENEMIES" OF RUMOR MILL NEWS
"I can't think of a curse that is bad enough to throw at the people who are behind this. I sincerely hope that one of the many witches who reads RMN will create the appropriate curse to launch at these people. The best I do right now is pray that they get to experience 100 times over, the things they are doing to me.
Some of the people I have banned from Rumor Mill News were banned because I was finally certain they were working for one or another government. And it now appears that the attack on me and RMN started last November." [November, 2003]
BARBARA HARTWELL DENOUNCES MICROMANAGEMENT & CENSORSHIP
2003
Fellow RMN agents:
What Aladdin has described here is micro-management of the most intrusive kind. Similar attempts to implement such micro-management were proposed by Lawgiver1 and White Raven some time ago, to which I voiced my objection, stating that I would leave RMN if such "policy changes" were made.
Personally, I don't need a "coach" nor will I allow myself to be "managed" in any way.
This policy applies to ANY message board or website on which I have posting privileges, or on which my work is posted by an editor, by individual selection.
I did not "cut my teeth" on RMN. I have worked as a print journalist since 1977, in hardcopy periodicals and subsequently on the Internet since 1995.
Unless I am allowed full freedom of speech, without censorship; as long as I follow the longstanding and --so far-- CURRENT reasonable rules, the foremost of which is, as I understand it, "no ad hominem" attacks on other agents, I will resign my status as a RMN agent.
I am not a "spoiled child" fighting over new toys. If Aladdin thinks I am "hardheaded" then so be it, he's entitled to his opinion, inaccurate and misguided as it is. I don't give a damn what he thinks of me.
However, his arrogance and flagrant disrespect to suggest that I, along with certain others, need to be "zapped", herded or lead by ANYONE, including his appointed "confident leader" or "peacemaker" Michael St. Clair is an outrage!
Who in hell does Aladdin think he is? Maybe he's had one too many conversations with his "old friend" Lucifer.....
If Rayelan decides to give him --or any others of similar mindset-- that kind of power over the policies of RMN, then I will resign my agent status in the blink of an eye.
This is a form of petty tyranny, and goes against everything I stand for. If this man thinks I am some sort of "liability" here --along with Nandi and some of the "new agents"-- and that some of us need to be "kept in line", by "management" --well, that's about the last straw!
It's a condescending, patronizing, flagrantly disrespectful thing to suggest.
How dare he??!!
Shame on you, Aladdin.
BH
BARBARA HARTWELL ON THE NEW AGE CONTROVERSY
Fellow RMN agents:
I find it necessary to explain some things in the hope of clearing up any misunderstandings people may have about me or my position as regards both RMN and all the New Age controversy.
First let me say that my opinions about the New Age movement were formed many years ago and based on serious and thorough research, as well as my personal experiences in being groomed by CIA as a propagandist for the New Age/NWO. These opinions have only grown stronger over the years, as I have done more research and collected more data.
The article I wrote was expressing my honest concern as to my own observations re the New Age movement as well as what I perceive as a "New Age takeover" of RMN. Herald Ap used the same phrase in an article he wrote some time back, and I did come out publicly in basic agreement with him.
When Rayelan posted a couple of things in the lounge, first the one about being "responsible" for the RMN "family" and then about "those in this room [the agents lounge] agreed to do more-now's the time", along with "the awakening prose" ...I knew that these things were not meant for me.
Yes, I knew that Raye had written it, and not Esclarmonde, just to set the record straight.
I did not respond to them for that reason. Many of the RMN agents do not ever post in the lounge, and perhaps I have made a mistake by doing so, as I have made clear from the beginning --both publicly and in the semi-private lounge, that I am at RMN only as an independent investigative journalist, same as any other websites on which my work is posted, with the exception of my own, which officially represents me.
I in no way wish to denigrate Rayelan's vision for herself or for RMN. But it's Raye's vision, not mine.
If there is in fact a "family" here, then I guess those who are part of it feel it in their souls and know it is right for them. Not so with me.
Let me explain. First of all, I have not "agreed" on a spiritual level, with anyone but God to do anything. And there are only a few people who are RMN agents with whom I feel any sort of affinity, spiritual, political or otherwise. I think they know who they are. Most of them rarely, if ever, post in the lounge, but pursue their own independent work, just as I do.
True, Raye is one of those people with whom I had felt an affinity. She's the reason I came to RMN in the first place!
She is a dear friend whom I love like a sister, as I have said many times. But she is not "responsible" for me in a spiritual sense, nor for that matter in any other. I would do all in my power to help her -- and have done so far, though it may not have been much, it was the best I could do. I may decide to leave RMN, if it turns out that Rayelan and I have such profound disagreements that we have to go our separate ways and "agree to disagree".
I know what God wants me to do, and there's no conflict there with what I know I need to do and want to do (even if I know at times it will be painful) and so I just do it. I don't feel the need to discuss it with anyone, I don't need advice, don't need to join up with any group of people to do it, nor do I feel there is any real truth for me personally outside of my relationship with God, which also works through my individual relationships with certain others.
Speaking strictly for myself, I am not looking for "pieces of a puzzle". I don't think anyone has the "answers" for me, except God, who speaks to me directly through my heart and always has. Sometimes, especially when I was younger, I did not listen, and the fault was only mine, never God's.
I am not suffering from any sort of spiritual or emotional confusion, as I have seen expressed here by quite a few readers and agents alike. I know God and that's enough for me. I do not proselytize; I do not attempt to impose my views on others; I don't offer advice unless asked, because I respect the personal boundaries and the spiritual integrity of others, as I expect them to respect mine.
I am not a "member" of any organized religion, I just have a relationship with God, it's that simple. Many people mistakenly believe I am a Fundamentalist --not so! They assume, assume, assume, when in fact I have never stated such a thing in my writings.
But anyway, I don't have much free time for writing these messages, I do so only when I find it crucial to make my position clear.
Thank you for listening and please see my response to Aladdin's post re "Media Management for RMN !!"
It's an important part of clarifying my position as regards my involvement here at RMN, and the possibility that I may soon have to resign my agent status, on principle, just as Herald Ap has, if in fact Aladdin is allowed to implement his "management" strategies, as he has outlined here.
BARBARA HARTWELL ON THE NEW AGE CONTROVERSY
Fellow RMN agents:
I find it necessary to explain some things in the hope of clearing up any misunderstandings people may have about me or my position as regards both RMN and all the New Age controversy.
First let me say that my opinions about the New Age movement were formed many years ago and based on serious and thorough research, as well as my personal experiences in being groomed by CIA as a propagandist for the New Age/NWO. These opinions have only grown stronger over the years, as I have done more research and collected more data.
The article I wrote was expressing my honest concern as to my own observations re the New Age movement as well as what I perceive as a "New Age takeover" of RMN. Herald Ap used the same phrase in an article he wrote some time back, and I did come out publicly in basic agreement with him.
When Rayelan posted a couple of things in the lounge, first the one about being "responsible" for the RMN "family" and then about "those in this room [the agents lounge] agreed to do more-now's the time", along with "the awakening prose" ...I knew that these things were not meant for me.
Yes, I knew that Raye had written it, and not Esclarmonde, just to set the record straight.
I did not respond to them for that reason. Many of the RMN agents do not ever post in the lounge, and perhaps I have made a mistake by doing so, as I have made clear from the beginning --both publicly and in the semi-private lounge, that I am at RMN only as an independent investigative journalist, same as any other websites on which my work is posted, with the exception of my own, which officially represents me.
I in no way wish to denigrate Rayelan's vision for herself or for RMN. But it's Raye's vision, not mine.
If there is in fact a "family" here, then I guess those who are part of it feel it in their souls and know it is right for them. Not so with me.
Let me explain. First of all, I have not "agreed" on a spiritual level, with anyone but God to do anything. And there are only a few people who are RMN agents with whom I feel any sort of affinity, spiritual, political or otherwise. I think they know who they are. Most of them rarely, if ever, post in the lounge, but pursue their own independent work, just as I do.
True, Raye is one of those people with whom I had felt an affinity. She's the reason I came to RMN in the first place!
She is a dear friend whom I love like a sister, as I have said many times. But she is not "responsible" for me in a spiritual sense, nor for that matter in any other. I would do all in my power to help her -- and have done so far, though it may not have been much, it was the best I could do. I may decide to leave RMN, if it turns out that Rayelan and I have such profound disagreements that we have to go our separate ways and "agree to disagree".
I know what God wants me to do, and there's no conflict there with what I know I need to do and want to do (even if I know at times it will be painful) and so I just do it. I don't feel the need to discuss it with anyone, I don't need advice, don't need to join up with any group of people to do it, nor do I feel there is any real truth for me personally outside of my relationship with God, which also works through my individual relationships with certain others.
Speaking strictly for myself, I am not looking for "pieces of a puzzle". I don't think anyone has the "answers" for me, except God, who speaks to me directly through my heart and always has. Sometimes, especially when I was younger, I did not listen, and the fault was only mine, never God's.
I am not suffering from any sort of spiritual or emotional confusion, as I have seen expressed here by quite a few readers and agents alike. I know God and that's enough for me. I do not proselytize; I do not attempt to impose my views on others; I don't offer advice unless asked, because I respect the personal boundaries and the spiritual integrity of others, as I expect them to respect mine.
I am not a "member" of any organized religion, I just have a relationship with God, it's that simple. Many people mistakenly believe I am a Fundamentalist --not so! They assume, assume, assume, when in fact I have never stated such a thing in my writings.
But anyway, I don't have much free time for writing these messages, I do so only when I find it crucial to make my position clear.
Thank you for listening and please see my response to Aladdin's post re "Media Management for RMN !!"
It's an important part of clarifying my position as regards my involvement here at RMN, and the possibility that I may soon have to resign my agent status, on principle, just as Herald Ap has, if in fact Aladdin is allowed to implement his "management" strategies, as he has outlined here.
--BH
"ZAPPER" (AKA "HOBIE", RAYELAN'S LACKEY & ENFORCER) ADMONISHES HARTWELL FOR "AD HOMINEM ATTACKS"
"Barbara,
"[insert Agent name here] is [some unbecoming thing]" is almost the definition of "ad hominem".
Your meaning is, "I, Barbara, am the sole authority on matters of my life, my thoughts, my feelings. From that stance of authority, I can say Esclarmonde's remarks about my life, my thoughts, my feelings, are very much off base."
That meaning is a valid statement in a Forum post. Because it is, I intend to let the message stay. Please use greater care in adhering to the "no ad hominem attacks" Forum guideline.
"ZAPPER" (AKA "HOBIE", RAYELAN'S LACKEY & ENFORCER) ADMONISHES HARTWELL FOR "AD HOMINEM ATTACKS"
"Barbara,
"[insert Agent name here] is [some unbecoming thing]" is almost the definition of "ad hominem".
Your meaning is, "I, Barbara, am the sole authority on matters of my life, my thoughts, my feelings. From that stance of authority, I can say Esclarmonde's remarks about my life, my thoughts, my feelings, are very much off base."
That meaning is a valid statement in a Forum post. Because it is, I intend to let the message stay. Please use greater care in adhering to the "no ad hominem attacks" Forum guideline.
--Zapper
HARTWELL: RESPECTFULLY, I MUST STAND MY GROUND
Zapper:
With all due respect, I cannot see your point. In my opinion, there is no close proximity to an "ad hominem attack". I called Esclarmonde "clueless" ONLY in specific reference to ME and "some of us on RMN"; and cited her presumptuous actions in regard to me personally.
My point is, it's fair to say that she is "clueless" because she does not know me, or anything about me. I simply asked her, politely, to respect my personal boundaries by NOT offering unsolicited advice or amateur psychoanalysis, as she frequently does.
As far as I can see, she has been doing this for a long time, and to other agents as well.
She also twists the words of other agents into some New Age mumbo-jumbo and claims a meaning for them that the other person did not intend. And then she baits the other person, in what I can only call a provocation.
Some people become angry, and I can't blame them. It makes me angry too.
Then, when someone confronts her for her disrespectful behavior, that is approaching an "ad hominem" attack?
Not in my book.
I know that recently RMN lost (in my opinion) a GREAT agent, one of my favorites, going by the handle Herald Ap, because of a similar exchange with Esclarmonde as the one here between Esclarmonde and Nandi.
Herlad Ap resigned his agent status because he felt it was unfair for one of his posts, in a thread of disagreement with Esclarmonde, to be deleted, for the same basic reason, the so-called "ad hominem".
As I said in the Agents' Lounge, I must continue to defend Herald Ap on principle.
I know there were other agents here who were as sorry as I was to see him go.
I only hope I don't have to join him in leaving. But if I am not allowed to speak my mind, in a civil manner, in response to another agent's post, without being admonished, especially when that person has presumed to speak about MY experiences, of which I can assure you based on her comments, she knows or understands NOTHING, thereby presenting a false view of me to the public, then I would resign my status also, on principle, just as Herald Ap has done.
I must stand my ground on this, no matter what the consequences.
Here is a description, based on a widely accepted definition as well as a cogent summary of "ad hominem". I would appreciate it, that if you disagree with this definition and summary, you could explain why.
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim).
Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem
Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."
I for one, would like more clarity as to what is considered "ad hominem" by the administration of RMN or otherwise considered inappropriate or taboo for posting on this forum.
Thank you, respectfully,
HARTWELL: RESPECTFULLY, I MUST STAND MY GROUND
Zapper:
With all due respect, I cannot see your point. In my opinion, there is no close proximity to an "ad hominem attack". I called Esclarmonde "clueless" ONLY in specific reference to ME and "some of us on RMN"; and cited her presumptuous actions in regard to me personally.
My point is, it's fair to say that she is "clueless" because she does not know me, or anything about me. I simply asked her, politely, to respect my personal boundaries by NOT offering unsolicited advice or amateur psychoanalysis, as she frequently does.
As far as I can see, she has been doing this for a long time, and to other agents as well.
She also twists the words of other agents into some New Age mumbo-jumbo and claims a meaning for them that the other person did not intend. And then she baits the other person, in what I can only call a provocation.
Some people become angry, and I can't blame them. It makes me angry too.
Then, when someone confronts her for her disrespectful behavior, that is approaching an "ad hominem" attack?
Not in my book.
I know that recently RMN lost (in my opinion) a GREAT agent, one of my favorites, going by the handle Herald Ap, because of a similar exchange with Esclarmonde as the one here between Esclarmonde and Nandi.
Herlad Ap resigned his agent status because he felt it was unfair for one of his posts, in a thread of disagreement with Esclarmonde, to be deleted, for the same basic reason, the so-called "ad hominem".
As I said in the Agents' Lounge, I must continue to defend Herald Ap on principle.
I know there were other agents here who were as sorry as I was to see him go.
I only hope I don't have to join him in leaving. But if I am not allowed to speak my mind, in a civil manner, in response to another agent's post, without being admonished, especially when that person has presumed to speak about MY experiences, of which I can assure you based on her comments, she knows or understands NOTHING, thereby presenting a false view of me to the public, then I would resign my status also, on principle, just as Herald Ap has done.
I must stand my ground on this, no matter what the consequences.
Here is a description, based on a widely accepted definition as well as a cogent summary of "ad hominem". I would appreciate it, that if you disagree with this definition and summary, you could explain why.
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim).
Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem
Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."
I for one, would like more clarity as to what is considered "ad hominem" by the administration of RMN or otherwise considered inappropriate or taboo for posting on this forum.
Thank you, respectfully,
BH
